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Post by lordrevan on Oct 5, 2005 23:33:10 GMT
I have nothing against the catholics because my family is but what do you guys think about them?
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Post by Darth Sidious on Oct 5, 2005 23:42:02 GMT
Personally I dont. I try to respect whatever beliefs a specific religion may have but I do not personally follow any.
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Post by lordrevan on Oct 7, 2005 1:35:49 GMT
hmm i see ok good idea. the catholic religion is very powerful in todays world
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Post by Empress Palpatine on Oct 7, 2005 3:38:52 GMT
perhaps a little too powerful lately....The new chief Justice of the Supreme Court is a Catholic.
I like the idea of many smaller religions as opposed to big super-powerful ones. I like freedom of religion for individuals but I get nervous if any particular one amasses too much political power.
I'd like to see new religions on the scene-Sith for one.
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Post by lordrevan on Oct 8, 2005 10:50:49 GMT
well the catholics have great political power. They have churches and priests everywhere. The pope is always on tv. The catholics have there own tv show on channel I think 56. I was flipping through the channels when I saw a mass going on. If that is not great political power then what is?
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Post by Seti I Shadim on Oct 10, 2005 9:03:55 GMT
I am of 2 minds on this one. First, I believe in freedom of religion. On the other hand, the Catholic church has been responsible for the Inquisition, annihilation of the Cathars, etc. Of course, I may be upset with them simply because they got to commit those atrocities and I didn't!!! LOL
-Seti
p.s. I too share Empress Palpatine's(bows) concern over the Robert's nomination- especially in relation to his Catholic conservatism.
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Post by Darth Sidious on Oct 10, 2005 16:25:09 GMT
In my opinion at least, i see no problems with large religions in the normal sense, however with the current state of certain religions, such can hardly be described as 'normal'.
No religion should be allowed to amass real political power. A religion is not intended to be a political body, instead it is intended as, or should be intended as an organisation of people who share the same beliefs, the same ideals, etc.. I also believe in freedom of/for religions and religious beliefs, however, any religion that amasses political power as the situation appears to be currently with the catholic faith does not sit well with me.
A religion with potentailly large and far-reaching political powers could do almost anything it wished, even , although unlikely(?), upto social and religious controls.
feel free to disagree, thats just how i see this.
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Post by lordrevan on Oct 11, 2005 0:18:29 GMT
no you are right. but the catholics do have tons of political power in the world. the pope is more popular than the president.
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Post by darthdevious on Oct 11, 2005 2:46:47 GMT
Catholism is a light side religion. Catholism, like all branches of christinaty, encourage weakness among their fflock. Consider some of the common christian symbols. Christ allowed himself to be sacrificed on the cross. Because of this christians tend to believe that it is ok to be a victim. I have always found this to be the most disgusting thing about the whole "christrian" relitions.
My fellow dark side practicioners. You really should study the works of Anton LaVey. There is a whole different philosophy in his works. I wont tell you what it is, but the emphasis is on strength, not weakness. It is totally inline with the Sith attitude.
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Post by Empress Palpatine on Oct 11, 2005 21:36:45 GMT
I find the Catholic emphasis on Jesus' cruxifiction a perverse thing. Several years ago I visited Germany once and saw crosses all over the place. I was seriously wondering if the citizenry in that country was psychotic. I seriously wonder if the Catholics have some sort of psychoses because they have this odd obsession with nailing their god on bloody crosses. The protestants, as a rule, tone that down a bit; but lately, they got all weirdly obsessed and flocked by the droves to see the movie "The Passion." I was wondering about this sudden preoccupation with blood and guts. Do they have sick fantasies, and the death of Jesus is a vicarious fulfillment of some sort. Those who fulfill such in a literal sense land in prison. I wonder, do they secretly hate Jesus? What kind of sick God would get his jollies torturing and killing his son? There is something perverse about the whole thing.
I actually read Anton LaVey's Satanic Bible out of curiosity. He found the sentiments of these Christians abnormal, and I have to admit, I agreed with that basic point.
Historically, I think the death of Christ was like the death of Martin Luther King or JFK; simply an unfortunate event. The deciples had trouble dealing with the dissapointment over the loss of their leader so they built up some sort of theology around it. They could not face the chaotic aspect of the material world so they somehow attributed it to God killing his son on purpose (which was not at all true I don't think).
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Post by darthdevious on Oct 12, 2005 4:02:43 GMT
I also find it to be a perverse thing. Difference, I believe Jesus should have raised his followers and fought his oppressors. Or at least used his influence to increase his power so that he could overthrow them.
I dislike the christian comcept of weakness being a virtue.
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Post by Darth Millennial on Oct 14, 2005 0:08:55 GMT
Well, according to Catholic teachings, if Jesus was never crucified, the souls of humanity would be unable to get into Heaven, and would be imprisoned in the underworld forever. Also, teachings say that Jesus was embodying the original sin as he was tortured and crucified, therefore breaking sin's power and letting humans into Heaven.
My guess is that The Passion was popular because people wanted to know the extent of what Jesus did for them.
And, in the end, where does war get us as a species but a ruined world and society?
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Post by lordrevan on Oct 15, 2005 0:45:16 GMT
I agree with you. Besides the world is all going to "hell" anyway for the way people act and the things they do.
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Post by Darth Sidious on Oct 15, 2005 0:56:49 GMT
Well, according to Catholic teachings, if Jesus was never crucified, the souls of humanity would be unable to get into Heaven, and would be imprisoned in the underworld forever. Also, teachings say that Jesus was embodying the original sin as he was tortured and crucified, therefore breaking sin's power and letting humans into Heaven. My guess is that The Passion was popular because people wanted to know the extent of what Jesus did for them. And, in the end, where does war get us as a species but a ruined world and society? Regarding the If jesus was never crucified... correct me if im wrong, and i dont think i am, but all christian-related faiths that i am aware of share this 'belief', however i can understand it to an extent being brought up in one such religion. I have never seen "The Passion" so i wont comment on that specifically, but again, if memory serves, its not the only film ever made that involves the crucifiction, although i cant remember the names of the other(s?). I havent read the work of this LeVay, but i also have to agree with such sentiments being in the very least abnormal. What does war get us? to be honest, that depends entirely on who you ask and the kind of person thay are. I say nothing but more problems, whether in the short or long term, a war will come back to haunt you. In closing, this is my opinion, so again, disagree if you wish to, but in my opinion, and from my experience, it is anything but OK to be a victim, in any situation. Weaknesses in any form should of course be tolerated (maybe the wrong word to use, cant think of another), and such people should be helped to out grow them.
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Post by darthdevious on Oct 17, 2005 2:24:47 GMT
I cant believe what I am seeing. You people are not sith. The sith believe in the pursuit of power through the force. The Sith use their passions to empower themselves and emable themselves to do what most cannot. The sith destroy their enemies, as enemies keep a check on your power.
I wonder if any of you have really embraced the dark side
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Post by Empress Palpatine on Oct 17, 2005 3:22:21 GMT
I have run into quite a number of Christians of one kind or another on Sith sites. I am not sure why because the Sith doctrine is not exactly a Christian one. All I can guess is that most people are raised Christian in their youth. It takes years to rethink one's position on things. I took years. By the time I ever logged onto a Sith site, I had ceased to be one any longer. I do remember all that Bible I grew up with, but now I interpret it quite differently. I believe in a mix of religions now. I am more of a Deist. There is no God that is demanding some sort of blood debt be paid by some innocent son of his. God himself made the Dark Side (so to speak). If it is good enough for him it is good enough for me.
The brainwash that so many grew up with has a powerful hold. I see Sith as more of an antidote. Some may actually take years to be Sith in the truest sense. Sith is six years old (since 1999) as defined by Lucas. No one has actually been raised Sith (like Maul and others). Most of us here were something else in our past.
The Catholic church has been around hundreds of years (since around Constantine I think). We Sith have a lot of catching up to do to gain ground on them.
I recall the story of Martin Luther who had been a Catholic monk. He had been crawling on his bloody knees up some steps to do some sort of penance thing. It seems Catholics have a certain fixation on suffering, like one is somehow loved more by God for doing it. Martin stood up suddenly and said, "No, It is justification by faith!" It was only the minorist shifts in doctrine and still very much in the Christian domain; but at the time it was a bloomin revolution (The Reformation).
Later on came the Freemasons then new agers and pagan revivalists. Then came George Lucas, Jedi and finally Sith. Humans take one more step in the process of rethinking their gods. We now have science. God no longer has to be some cantankerous wrathful old man on a throne issuing forth commandments and damning people to Hell. We have outgrown such a God. A Force is more real, an energy field not a being with some sort of psychotic disorder.
As a Sith, I hope mankind will finally grow up. I just try to be patient about it. People will have to learn on their own.
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Post by Darth Sidious on Oct 20, 2005 22:07:10 GMT
So what if people dont actively follow this sith doctrine/ religion? I dont. does that make me less of a person? No
I find all such things of interest, but as previously stated, i do not follow any religion, and i mean any.
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Post by Empress Palpatine on Oct 23, 2005 1:27:19 GMT
The freedom of being a Sith is just that....freedom. Freedom to do it as one chooses.
Speaking of Catholics, I had a funny thing happen today. I went to this shop owned by this oriental lady who sells all sorts of oriental knick knacks. She has one employee who is evidently a Catholic. Among all the knicknacs was this large crucifix with those rosary beads. I made some comment that I only saw one that big in the movies. This lady took my offhand comment as a licence to preach. That is when I realized she was Catholic. My friend was with me. She said she had been Catholic raised, but remembered little. She later went Baptist. This lady grimaced at the thought of that switch. Then both of us said we switched religions many times but now we found new religions on the internet. There is Jedi and there is Sith. The sheer idea of starting new religions on the internet made this lady spazz out. (I did not mention specific sites). We left scratching our heads. I am left to guess. Perhaps the established religions fear being abandoned for newer and more exciting ones (or even no religion). It always seems like you see mostly gray haired people in churches. What if they all die off and youth do not follow in their footsteps simply because they do not have the same psychological need. The churches close for lack of interest and funding in 10 or 20 years. It is not to say it is all do to Sith and Jedi, but to a general trend with people under 40 who don't see the point in all this religious stuff. It is not so much hatred as simple lack of interest. I have observed this in people younger than me. In actuality, I chase God (or the Force) more than most who are younger; but then I am on the cusp agewise. I have some traits of the baby boom generation who chased exotic religions from the east. I missed the flower child thing by about 10 years. I was a small kid.
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Azazel
Sith Apprentice
Posts: 44
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Post by Azazel on Oct 25, 2005 11:54:19 GMT
Personally i think that trying to compare Sith with Christianity is like to mix oil with water. First of all, Christianity is something that, to most of us, was, to a certain part of our age, somehow forced. We had our parents, families and older people all saying nice cuddly things about Jesus Christ, and Christmas, even it was a good opportunity to get some new gifts, was also another brainwashing experience on Jesus and hes jolly men. We, by voluntarily getting in this forum, are accepting some other, completely different way of seeing life, although we must admit that ALL of us were, in one way or another, been "touched" by the star wars saga, and the almost mystical force that arises from the dark side characters. But, while accepting this "new" way of being in a "religion", we cannot dismiss all the things that were pushed unto us all this years, and , even if we say that we all belong to the dark side (and we should admit that is funny to write on questionnaire "religion---ยป sith", that continues to happen. What we really need is a true demonstration of what we preach, not only for us, but for the others that mock us, the "see to believe" is, today more than ever, the only thing that people use. And, deep down inside, the Catholic church should be a raw model to our sith way of being. One old guy rules it all, nobody dares to fight him, absolute power, lots of blind followers, a looong history of killing people in the name of religion, empires destroyed in its name and new worlds "discovered" in its name. Does anybody imagine better than that?
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Post by Mrs. Darth Vader on Oct 26, 2005 5:31:44 GMT
I like some of you think that the Catholics are far too powerful and like the Jedi in the movie Revange of the Sith the catholics must be over thrown. On our national news station the pope clearly told all his fallowers to destroy any religions that are not long established.
In regards to the movie called "The Passion" only psychopaths would like this one because its sole focus is on the systematic torture of an innocent man. Other Jesus movies focus on the life as well as the death of Jesus. The reason the Passion is so sick it focuses only on the Death of Jesus. The best Jesus movie I ever saw was called " Jesus" by a group called The Genisis Project.
I to believe in the freedom of religion. I also believe in the freedom to be an athiest. The catholics like the Muslims would kill all who are not catholic when they have emassed enough power to act. They are posistioning there peices like in chess. then check mate. They will move and kill all the non-catholics like befor in the middle ages. There is a reason that some of us wish for a real life Palpatine.
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Azazel
Sith Apprentice
Posts: 44
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Post by Azazel on Oct 26, 2005 10:26:19 GMT
Historically, the Muslims have always been more tolerant than Christians, and the history of southern Europe shows it to good extend.the only thing that made them change they're attitude toward Christians were the crusades, and everything the church as made trough out the years to get their own power stronger. I don't believe in all that crap that the media send everyday that the Muslims are bad guys.they believe in the same god as Christians, only have a different prophet. they just like to keep things for themselves and not to be bossed around by some foreign troops that landed on one day and start destroying and acting like they are the owners of truth. If someone would do the same on my country, i would be on the first line of Resistance. all in all, the only truly peaceful religion is Buddhism, and those guys are really good, much more force sensitive than we will ever be.
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Post by lordrevan on Oct 27, 2005 1:32:31 GMT
Yes the catholics must be overthrown. anyone who wants to be part of the new campain with me to over throw them speak now.
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Post by darthdevious on Oct 27, 2005 2:35:11 GMT
I am with you. But the catholic and other light side religions have their place. We darksiders can use them to control the weak, and make them our slaves! Which, I suspect, is exactly what our society has done. Have you noticed the price of gas? Have you noticed that ordinary people get screwed all the time? People get unhappy with everyday life, then the go to church, they are promised heaven, eternal life, and other crap, and the leave happy. Church is therapy for the weak. And I have begun to wonder if it is our ultimate revenge on them. And we didn't even have to do anything! The force is with us!!
Remember, fear -> anger-> hate-> power
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Post by Empress Palpatine on Oct 27, 2005 5:25:24 GMT
That is a big job! I am for the idea of having many smaller religious groups with none as a dominant one. Like Palpatine, I'd rather have the real power vested in the state. Religious groups should be smaller and weaker and subordinate. The ignorant masses need it so they should have it but it in no way should conflict with the empire.
The Catholic church may weaken over time because it seems that old people slavishly take orders from such. Young people are less inclined. When the old die off, the Catholic church will have less membership. They are also tearing themselves up with scandal. Right now in the U.S. they have been sued by victims of pervert priests. This drains their wealth. Some Catholic churches have even closed in the U.S. due to bankruptcy. Many have quit and gone protestant due to embarrassment over the scandal. They have their weaknesses and these can be exploited.
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Post by lordrevan on Oct 28, 2005 23:57:36 GMT
Yes you are right and i am glad that you darthdevious have sided with me in destroying the catholics.
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sindo
Sith Marauder
[H:1]
Posts: 276
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Post by sindo on Oct 29, 2005 2:53:45 GMT
I think the catholic religion is a joke and I'm sick of catholics always shoving thier faith down my throat!
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Post by Empress Palpatine on Oct 29, 2005 3:05:58 GMT
I just watched "Dateline" on NBC tonight with Tom Brokaw. They showed how the religious right has taken over the U.S. government. The emphasis was on Protestants, but Catholics are just as troublesome. Usually Catholics lurk in the shadows. Sindo, do they actually agressively preach at you? The hellfire and damnation routine?
By the way, welcome back. You were here awhile back, weren't you?
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Post by lordrevan on Oct 29, 2005 7:32:47 GMT
Yes you are all right that is why we must stop this stupid religion before it gets in the way of the sith and the empire. then they will be more trouble than needed. they think their religion is the highest religion and puerest. yeah right they will get whats comming to them. we must kill them NOW.
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sindo
Sith Marauder
[H:1]
Posts: 276
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Post by sindo on Oct 29, 2005 23:07:44 GMT
Yes they do preach to me and I'm sick of it. I refuse to beleive that god loves me when he'd send me to a burning and everlasting hell if I don't believe in him. And thanks for the welcome back I just wish I had my old rank because I was doing good.
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Post by Mrs. Darth Vader on Oct 30, 2005 0:48:36 GMT
Yes the catholics must be overthrown. anyone who wants to be part of the new campain with me to over throw them speak now. I agree If you saw my Star Wars web site I clearly side with The riseing empire. I compare the Jedi of the movie to both catholics and protestants. To me the catholics are the most dangerous because they blend in more and vail their intentions were as the protestants come with a more open face. Both are dangerous though. Did you see the movie " Contact" based on a Carl Sagan novel. In the movie The catholic named Palmer Josh was far more dangerous, in a subtle sort of way,than the protestant terrorist. Palmer Josh one minut helped the star of the show the next he would zing her without her realizing were the shot came from. Same is true of the catholics.
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